“You’d think we’d be used used to Zoom by now”, laughs Jocelyn as I try to start the recording. “I still have no idea how that works”, jokes Chris. The brother-sister duo sits in front of a wall of guitars. Yet, Chris finds another to hold. Fiddling with the strings, he resists the urge to play. Jocelyn takes a sip of coffee and we get straight into business.
“Is your family very musical?”, I ask. Jocelyn pauses. “Our parents wouldn’t describe themselves as musicians but they are definitely music lovers”, she decides, “we grew up dialled into classic rock, jazz, blues and pop”. A smile lights up her face as she reminisces. “Our parents amassed this giant CD collection”, she remembers, “We’d go there when we were misbehaving”. To me, this seemed an odd punishment. Yet, it may have paved the way for their booming music career.
“When did you begin playing together?”, I enquire. This time, Chris answers: “When we first picked up instruments, I was in third grade and Jocelyn was in fourth. We worked out that if we learnt the same songs and practiced them together, we could cut in half the time it would take to get rehearsals done”. “It was efficiency”, Jocelyn jokingly claims. However, I am sure there was more to it than that.
Where did they go from there, I ask? Chris continues, “We formed a band in middle school… I think I was in seventh grade when we wrote our first song. That’s when we caught the bug and thought, ‘man, this is awesome.’” But did they see music as their future? Not yet…
“We met our current producer and manager, David Bourgeois, and his wife, Anna, when I was a senior in high school,” explains Jocelyn, “We were playing in our high school garage band, the Dependants, at the local fair. There was no-one there except our parents, David and Anna. They came up to us at the end and said, ‘You could maybe do this for a living’, and we were like ‘no way!’”. You can still see the amazement in their eyes. “That’s way to cool to be a job”, laughs Chris.
Yet, they weren’t willing to drop everything to pursue music. “Our parents were both teachers so college was always in the cards for us no matter what we did”, explains Jocelyn. Nevertheless, music was now their goal. Somehow, they would have to juggle touring and recording alongside their college work. To make matters worse, they would be studying at one of the most prestigious universities in America: Harvard.
Interestingly, neither studied music. “I took computer science and Jocelyn did English”, reveals Chris, “I had a music minor but the bulk of my work was sitting down with my computer crunching through list sorting algorithms.”
“How did you manage your college work and music career?”, I ask, bewildered. “That’s a good question. I have no idea!”, they declare in unison. They appear as confused as me. Nevertheless, Jocelyn explains her approach: “I would try to cram my classes Monday through Thursday because I knew we would have shows on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.”
Not only did they graduate with flying colours, but their upcoming record, Favourite Ghosts, is their fifth full-length album. “How have they been so prolific?”, I wonder. Jocelyn shrugs. “We’re always writing music, so we figure we might as well put it out there,” she explains, as if nothing were simpler. Nevertheless, Favourite Ghosts was completed two years ago and still hasn’t been released. “Why?”, I ask, although I think I can guess. “It was going to be released in spring 2020 but we all know what happened there…”, sighs Chris, confirming my suspicions.
I’m still intrigued by their prolificacy. “How do you approach a new record?”, I ask, “Do you try to do something new? Do you build on past experiences?” Jocelyn has a different answer altogether. “I try to avoid preconceived notions,” she explains, “personally, I find they can box me in and stress me out.” It seems Jocelyn suffers from insecurity: “Some part of my brain is always like, ‘what if we forget how to do it?... what if we suck?’”.
Yet, Jocelyn knows how to derive the most from their talent: “We must trust ourselves and our ability to be songwriters and artists.” Clearly, their confidence is growing. I ask them how they know a release is ready. “If we feel proud of something, it’s time to start sharing it,” Jocelyn replies. It’s refreshing to talk to musicians who believe in their art.
I move on to the pair’s unique release approach. Although the record will appear on streaming services this autumn, for now, only radio stations have access. “Why is radio important to you?”, I query. “Radio has been supportive of us these past five years. We wanted to show the love to people who have shown it to us in the past”, explains Chris. This isn’t the only reason, however; the pair has a strong commitment to radio. “It’s one of the few remaining places in the industry where the people on the other end of the line truly love music”.
We can send out a record and someone will listen to it even if doesn’t have Warner Records on it.”
According to Chris, the album needs playing from start to finish: “Every once in a while, it’s nice to sit down and listen to an entire album”. This offers another explanation for their release method. Indeed, the pair see radio as promoting albums whilst streaming services support singles. Nevertheless, I can’t help but fear for the future of radio.
“Will radio survive the growth of streaming services?”, I enquire. Jocelyn believes it will: “Radio will survive as long as promoters continue programming music they love”. Whilst conceding that “you can’t ignore the world around you”, Jocelyn believes promoters should look beyond trends and record labels. Again, the duo justifies their love for radio. “We can send out a record and someone will listen to it even if doesn’t have Warner Records on it.”
Next comes the hardest question yet: their favourite track from Favourite Ghosts. I love ‘Sugar and Spice’”, says Jocelyn. “Yeah, that’s a really fun one to play live”, admits Chris. It comes as no surprise when guitarist, Chris, adds, “I love all the rocky ones”. Jocelyn agrees, “We’ve recently started playing ‘Break Me Down’ at shows and it goes off”. However, they can’t seem to pick one song. ‘Popcorn’ is mentioned, as is ‘My Favourite Ghost’. “We love them all”, they conclude. “Is this your favourite album yet?”, I probe, anticipating their answer: “Definitely. This album is just us. It feels like the right music to be releasing now. I’m so proud of it.”
The record’s name intrigues me. Why was ‘My Favourite Ghost’ chosen to be the title track? Jocelyn explains: “It’s not a song we could have written ten years ago. It’s a stark ballad”. However, it’s not just that; the song’s lyrics encapsulate the album’s inspiration. “It’s about being presented with an emotional challenge and struggling to overcome it,” she clarifies, “You think you’re over it and then a thought or a sound will bring it rushing back.” The last thing you would expect from an album inspired by “problems we like to tuck away” is optimism. Yet, Jocelyn and Chris’ message is overwhelmingly positive. “Those things are what make us ourselves,” Jocelyn claims, “They’re haunting us but, if we could go back and change those things, would we?”.
“It’s nice to work with people who are there because they love music and want to put down the best part they can for the song and not because they want to collect the pay check, give you fifty-nine minutes of their time and get out the door.”
Jocelyn’s powerful vocals are by far the most striking feature of their music. I wanted to know her inspirations. “I love big voices… I love people who let their personality shine through when they perform… people who let the music take control of them,” she replies, “you could be five miles away, but if the PA system is loud enough and you hear three notes out of their mouth, you know exactly who it is.” Quizzed on who fits this category, she cites Freddie Mercury, Aretha Franklin and Janis Joplin.
Has their style has evolved? This one leaves them pondering. “Every release is us at that time. That’s truer for this one than any other”, says Jocelyn. I ask her what she means. “We’ve become more confident as songwriters”, she clarifies, “We’re taking risks we wouldn’t have felt possible ten years ago.”
This takes her back to her high school days. “The studio environment can be really intimidating”, she admits, “When I was a senior in high school and I walked into a studio for the first time, I was like ‘woah’, how does this work?” “But now we know how it works”, she says excitedly, “we’re confident in ourselves as performers and people.”
I decide to hit them with a curveball. Holding my breath, I ask the band hailed as “pure American rock goodness” why rock is still relevant. Unfortunately, they mishear me. “Pop music? Oh… rock music.” Chris’ response, however, is enough to convince me. Whilst admitting that rock doesn’t perform best on streaming platforms, he won’t declare it dead. “There is a place in the world for every type of music”, he insists. His passion for the genre is evident as he describes the live experience: “There is just something about a rock show… the energy, the vibration in the chest.” “I’ll play a guitar solo anytime somebody asks me to”, he chirps.
The pair have collaborated with amazing artists: Cory Wong of Vulfpeck, G. Love, the Lumineers’ bassist, Brian Isaacs, and Gov’t Mule’s Danny Louis. I ask them how this came about. “Whilst we were in lockdown not playing any shows, literally everyone was in lockdown not playing shows”, laughs Jocelyn. Thus, they recruited Isaacs for two tracks, ‘Fly’ and ‘Popcorn’. Meanwhile, Lewis played Hammond organ on all their full-length records except Favourite Ghosts. “What about G. Love?”, I ask. “We played with him last weekend in Peoria, Illinois”, notes Jocelyn. This was their first encounter in five years, demonstrating the craziness of their lives.
“We’ve had good luck playing with very talented musicians who are also very nice people,” reminisces Chris. Nevertheless, the duo takes nothing for granted. “You never know how someone like Danny Louis or G. Love is going to act”, he confesses, “The don’t need to give anyone their time.” All their collaborators, however, have demonstrated immense passion for music. “They’re hour was up and they were like, ‘Give me another shot at it. I want to try something new’”, discloses Chris, evidently still stunned. “It’s nice to work with people who are there because they love music and want to put down the best part they can for the song and not because they want to collect the pay check, give you fifty-nine minutes of their time and get out the door.”
The interview ends with a passionate rendition of ‘Runaway’, available here:
‘Sugar and Spice’, ‘Run Away’ and ‘Black and Blue’ are available on streaming services. Favourite Ghosts will be released this autumn.